About Forum Moderation
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The above guidelines although for a WP forum are catering to an entirely different set of people. I don’t think they are that suitable overall for here. Certain phrases maay be.
Guidelines and faq’s and pink stickies are there for people to read – and as we all know, some people do not.
For some this may be the first forum they have ever used.
For others they may be confused and not really see these pointers.
If you don’t understand someone, say so. Just say “I’m not sure what you mean, how can I help?”
For others point them at the exact help they need. Telling them to read a sticky does not give them the answer and does not encourage others to ask questions.
Telling them off makes an unfriendly cliquey forum and it should be open to all at all times.
Treat others as you want to be treated – and don’t ever forget that we all know stuff and we all don’t know stuff. Just because someone asks what you think is a dumb question does not make them dumb.
Be nice. Be very nice.
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The only troll-like behaviours (flaming and name calling) I have seen on this forum in the last 9 months were not affected by the bloggers volunteering to help those asking questions. The exact reverse was the case. Yet, remarkably, the troll posts were not removed from the threads in question, which I will *not* provide the links to here for obvious reasons.
If our Moderator or Staff wish to admonish any blogger voluntarily helping on the forum for crossing any lines then, our email addresses are available and can be used for the purpose of providing correction and guidance to individuals.
However, first and foremost, it’s reasonable to expect that where the lines are drawn will be clearly articulated and brought to the attention of the whole wordpress community.
Likewise it’s also reasonable to expect that those bloggers who are abusive of others who are trying to help will be likewise be individually admonished via email and that their troll posts will be removed from forum threads.
Deleting troll posts and providing individual correction and guidance to bloggers comes with the territory of being a Moderator or a staff member. Correction through whining or posting broad brushed innuendo based on airy-fairy unwritten rules is utterly unacceptable. It undermines the confidence of those who are not in need of correction and it may turn them away from voluntarily helping others and assisting Automattic to achieve its business goals.
Quoting raincoaster:
If there’s an expectation of professionalism, it seems reasonable to employ professionals.
Flowing from that the bottom line is this: Automattic is a young and growing corporation with corporate responsibilities, and, if Automattic/wordpress is committed to profiting from the voluntary contributions of bloggers then, written guidelines must be prepared and posted for all wordpressers to see. Where there are no lines drawn there will always be problems and hurt feelings.
Successful business are a result of forethought, planning and good will. They are not the result of flying by the seat of your pants on updrafts of hot air.
Edit: Credit to raincoaster for her post below which inspired my edits to the thread above. I am coming from the same place. We are all part of the same community and any guidelines (once expressed) must be universally applied to all.
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If there’s an expectation of professionalism, it seems reasonable to employ professionals. Anyone who’s herded volunteers can tell you that their styles vary widely and are rarely altered for the benefit of an organization; I’ve been on both sides of that.
I see no differentiation between “volunteers” in the forum and “participants” in the forum, and I think that’s a good thing. Some people are more forthcoming about what they know than others, but what I witness again and again is that people step forward and don’t wait to be designated “volunteer”, or to self-designate. If you’re here, you’re part of it.
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I do have experience in “herding” large (over 150) groups of volunteers for non profit organizations. I have supervised staff of up to 14 employees in the business world and in government settings. In all cases, guidelines for volunteers and staff were provided and were revised as required. In all cases, any correction I gave or guidance I provided was done in a private setting and on an individual basis. This is good business practice and any other approach is not.
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Just for reference, email addresses are not available to the moderator. The only difference in data is I can see the IP addresses of where folks post from and I have a WHOIS lookup link that I asked for. That and I have a delete post and delete thread buttons as well.
I can’t even block folks for spamming even just here in the forums. I have to send in a feedback for that.
I just feel like some of us have taken on the role of moderator where they’re going after folks for doing something that they feel is incorrect.
Gotta run. The coffee folks are going to boot me in a couple.
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Thanks for the clarity with respect to what you can and can’t do as a Moderator. Correcting me in forum threads is working well for me. I have enough self confidence to accept public correction and enough humility to apologize publicly where required. I also have a well developed sense of humour. This is not the case for every blogger though, is it?
In my case, you do have my email address and if in the unlikely event that you ever wish to express your belief that I have crossed some imaginary line , then I encourage you to use it. :) *humourous aside * That is, provided, of course, you are likewise prepared to accept my spirited Irish/Canuckistani feedback in response to imaginary line crossings . *rotflmao*
However, seriously speaking, I still maintain that in all fairness one should not be admonished for crossing lines that do not in fact, exist. And if Automattic/wordpress expects to maintain a “9” ranking on the forum then guidelines are in order.
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“Treat others as you want to be treated – and don’t ever forget that we all know stuff and we all don’t know stuff. Just because someone asks what you think is a dumb question does not make them dumb.”
These forums would improve greatly if everyone followed this simple guideline. I’ve never seen flaming and name-calling here, but the high level of sarcasm and snark can be very off-putting.
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@laura
The golden rule is of course practiced the world over by conscious people. But IMO there’s always a place for sarcasm, satire, wit and even a snark or two in response those unconscious folks who rudely demand attention and become abusive when their will is not done.
@nosy
Girlfriend, you do make me smile, you do. :) *lol*
If there was an argument then I missed it too.
I thought this was a “lively” and “spirited” debate between fast friends, who are all loyal members of the wordpress community. :D
@rain
If you weren’t already a Canuckistani then I’d be vouching for you as an immigrant, for sure. You’re so obviously a gumbooter. What on earth are you doing on the mainland? ;) -
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Hey, pending transportation, the pink witch would be willing to steam with you at the cove, for sure.
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Was it about that woman that asked why there were WordPress blogs speaking in languages other than English? Because I couldn’t find the thread when I logged in today. So I guess the thread was nuked. lol
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“But IMO there’s always a place for sarcasm, satire, wit and even a snark or two in response those unconscious folks who rudely demand attention and become abusive when their will is not done.”
I would not agree.
Forums are not the place for the above.
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I didn’t think you would Mark.
Definition: I use the term “volunteers” throughout this writing not as an indication of any sort of status but only of function. It’s easier to type one word “volunteers” than the string “bloggers volunteering to answer forum questions” over and over again.
I agree with “golden rule” points you have made in your first post. I do not agree with (2) and your indication that no guidelines/rules ought to be posted at all.
(1) If you don’t understand someone, say so. Just say “I’m not sure what you mean, how can I help?”
(2) For others point them at the exact help they need. Telling them to read a sticky does not give them the answer and does not encourage others to ask questions.
(3) Telling them off makes an unfriendly cliquey forum and it should be open to all at all times.
(4) Treat others as you want to be treated – and don’t ever forget that we all know stuff and we all don’t know stuff.
(5) Just because someone asks what you think is a dumb question does not make them dumb.
(6) Be nice. Be very nice.I will endeavor to conduct myself in harmony with the foregoing but do understand that I’m *not* claiming I will be perfect and never make mistakes. This, as you have pointed out, is a n00bie forum. There will be mistakes made and IMO the incidence of mistakes made and undesirable patterned behaviours established will be higher where there are no guidelines/rules at all. That is my point.
For clarity:
(A) BTW I’m not qualified for and I am looking for a job or a position of any kind with wordpress *lol*. I’m simply not well and often housebound. Therefore, I’m online more frequently than most people are. I do know the answers to a fair number of the simple questions posed on the forum and I have had an inclination towards being helpful.(B) I have made mistakes but I have never flamed anyone. Also, I have graciously accepted and noted public correction when drmike offers it to me.
(C) Yet on this forum I have been called an obscene name by a man who did not like my stand against adsense on “free” blogs. He was not publicly chastised – why?
I have been flamed by a woman in a lengthy rambling post, even though she and I were on the same side of the issue. She was not publicly chastised – why?
And I have also been the target of another abusive outpouring. A personal attack on me containing an implied threat was made by a male troll, who was supposedly speaking on behalf of his friends, who had their blog taken away when they would not stop flaunting the TOS by placing their own commercial links in each and every post they made. He stated the only reason he registered with was to attack me – yet, his abuse was not deleted – why?
Once again I point out these incidences were all revolving around the “money madness” polluting the blogosphere and my stand against advertising on free blogs.(D) I do not believe in the double standards of the patriarchal system. Yet, on this forum I have detected and kept a record of men getting away with making very abusive comments, name calling, making personal attacks, albeit, only rarely. On the other hand, a couple of women like myself have used some sarcasm and snark when dealing with abusive men – big deal . {She rolls her eyes.}
(E) It remains my position that if wordpress does not want to encourage people to read the pink sticky posts then it’s senseless to post them.
(F) It remains my position that if wordpress wishes to encourage bloggers to to ask questions on the forum, rather than directing them to the existing resources such as the FAQs blog and the forum search box so they can find the answers themselves and become “weaned”, then wordpress should hire adequate number of baby blogger sitter staff to work on this n00bie forum, rather than expecting them to focus their energy on other duties too.
Moreover, if wordpress wants to maintain a community of un-weaned baby bloggers, who cannot or will not read and help themselves, then it’s reasonable to expect that the babysitting staff and the payroll paid out will grow and grow and grow.
If there are no guidelines/rules posted then n00bies will not grow-up and if their fellow bloggers cannot share common practice with them like using all capital letters is shouting, or that posting two or more threads on the same subjects is called “forum spamming”, or that commercial advertising links are not allowed, or that bumping their own threads is not acceptable behaviour then how will they learn these?Creating dependency on volunteers to pre-read all the material and find specific perfectly suited answer to the questions posed IMO “unrealistic”.
When a fellow bloggers says: this is all I can find in the FQAs and the forum search box on your question in a forum thread this is an indication that they have bottle fed a baby blogger with some formula to grow on. The baby blogger will then know that such resources exist and where to find them
Moreover, to expect this degree of professionalism from volunteers in the corporate context is wildly optimistic, bordering on laughable.It remains my position that unless there are guidelines/rules and unless staff deal with abuse swiftly and appropriately, it’s unrealistic to think that these incidents will not continue to occur again and again. Most importantly, I have not yet heard a cogent reason for not having posted guidelines/rules.
P.S. In case any bloggers reading this think I’m having a fight with Mark. I’m not. Also in case any bloggers think I have done something that was “horrifically bad” – I have not. This is simply a discussion.
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“But IMO there’s always a place for sarcasm, satire, wit and even a snark or two in response those unconscious folks who rudely demand attention and become abusive when their will is not done.
I would not agree.”
Not to mention random snark delivered to ordinary folks asking ordinary questions, not demanding anything, rudely or otherwise.
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The posts were deleted, so I assume he was aware of it.
I wasn’t injured or abused, nor did I say I was. I simply said that, in my opinion, the forums would be nicer without that. Just my opinion, respectfully stated, as a user of this forum. That’s all.
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A friendly reminder that forum moderation is taken care of by the Automattic staff as well as the wp.com forum moderators. (ie myself) Some folks seem lately to be trying to take over these duties themeselves and that really needs to stop.
Yet another friendly reminder. :)
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