Application to become a Polish validator
-
Ok, in that case I need to ask feedback from as many Polish users as possible on the strings awaiting deploy right now:
http://bit.ly/PlWatitingDeploy
How would you judge the translations, from poor to good? Any specific examples and context for those who don’t speak Polish?
-
Starting at page 1, to page 6. I could missed something.
blog – dziennik — “dziennik” is diary, blog is simply blog
Comments – Uwagi — “uwagi” have a bit negative meaning; we use “komentarze” (also comments) for the short notes after article in blogs/websited etc.
Mark as Spam — Zaliczenie uwagi do pochodzących od intruza — first of all, it’s too long for a button; “spam” means in Polish exactly the same as spam; i’d translate that translation as “Marking [I know, it’s nonsense] a comment to coming from intruder ones”
Trash – Uwagi niepożądane [marked ‘verb’] — “Uwagi niepożądane” isn’t a verb, it’s noun meaning “Unwanted comments”. Trash i’d translate as “wyrzuć”
Leave A Comment – Proszę o uwagę — when someone at a conference wants to start a speech, says “Attention please” – “Proszę o uwagę”. I don’t need to further explain that, do I?
This post is password protected. – Ta uwaga jest zabezpieczona hasłem. — “Post” isn’t “comment”, so “wpis” isn’t “komentarz” (“uwaga”)
[everywhere] comment — “komentarze”, not “uwagi”, as I wrote.
Be the first to comment! – Warto zamieścić pierwszą uwagę! — “Warto zamieścić…” means “It’s worth to post the first comment [uwaga ≠ komentarz]”
Target – Meta — Target is “cel”, destination of something. “Meta” usually means the end of a race (as opposed to “start”)
Save – Utrwalenie — Usually buttons contain verbs in inperative form (Go, Save, Submit, Notify, Trash). “Utrwalenie” is a participle, meaning to put sth on e.g. paper persistent. You can “utrwalić” (base form) a thought, an image, an poem, and so on.
Filter – Przebranie — Filter is “filtr”. In meaning “coffee filter – filtr do kawy”, for instance. You can filter a database records, posts, comments, of course. “Przebranie” is a) “dress”; you “przebierać się” (to dress) when you go to office, or go swimming; b) “przebierać” in meaning “wybierać” (to choose). You can “przebierać owoce” (sort fruits) to remove bad ones. However, in context of blogging (comments, posts etc.) “filtr” instead of “przebranie” – I’m sure that everyone would say “przefiltrować” results.
Edit – Korekta — as in “trash”. Edit is verb in imperative form, “korekta” isn’t, it’s rather correction/revision (noun). Similiar, buttons should have imperative forms of verbs.
As you see, quality of translations is… let’s say bad, I don’t want to be badword-filtered.
Hope it helped. -
Is there any chance to just revert stylistycznetlumaczenia’s translations? The previous ones were gramatically and stylistically correct. Also, they were compatible with the Polish version of WordPress.org which made .com version more familiar to people who also use the .org version. It would be easier to give them back than to translate every line once again (especially when the previous versions were good).
Besides, I’m shocked that it seems that just one person made this mess. How is it even possible for such (as it would appear) respectable and esteemed blogging platform to accept something that came from just one person and wasn’t validated by any other? Because I don’t believe that anyone else would accept the translations that came from stylistycznetlumaczenia. Please, pay more attention what are you about to put to PUBLIC. You have hundreds or thousands users from Poland and what you allowed to be the official Polish version of wordpress.com is just embarrasing. Come on, where did your professionality go?
-
Thanks @accisidium for the very exhaustive work on explaining the problems. As far as I can tell, it looks like everyone was ok with the translations until a new validator came along. This is an inevitable side-effect of working in community-mode, i.e. we have no choice but to extend trust until forced to revise that extension, which looks to be the case now.
We cannot “revert” translations, per se, but what we can do (as with a few other languages) is to import .org translations on to .com. This, however, only solves part of the problem, as Polish would be left with no validators (@waclawjacek is working fundamentally on the .org side).
@waclawjacek, as original validator of -org *and* .com, is there any way you can discuss the matter with the users above to recommend a validator?
-
I totally agree with chwastowisko. Current EN->PL translations are terrible, unintuitive and irritating. Just in case: on my blog I asked which translations are better: “wpis, wypis, wykaz i do zamieszczenia” (the current set) or “zaloguj, wyloguj, podgląd i opublikuj” (the previous set). Only 12 people answered (including me), but the previous set wins 11 to 1. Just in case: I can help with the translations.
Link to the poll: http://wojtekwalczak.wordpress.com/2011/05/08/petycja-o-przywrocenie-starej-wersji-tlumaczenia-interfejsu-uzytkownika-na-blogach-wordpress-com/
Hope this helps,
Wojtek Walczak -
Could you all do a spot check on the .org translation to Polish, just to make sure it’s ok? If it is we can at least import that into .com.
-
The outcry is unrepresentative of the WordPress users. It comes from the computer whizz kids, who for years have been emulating one another and entrenching the clumsy translations. They have the power to dictate and they’re the ones who are audible. However, they’re not linguists and they use the wrong lexicon (terminology), syntax and register. Their translations are word-for-word and no better than machine translations, that make your blood boil.
We have been trying to reverse this tide and show the alternative way and I’ve noticed some of our changes have started to become emulated. However, I understand any change is difficult to take on board, even if it is for the better. We have devoted a considerable amount of our time to put things right, it’s a shame they’re going to be reversed. You can only lead a horse to water, but cannot make it drink from it. We would not endorse the proposed wordpress.org translations without alterations. The choice is: professional versus amateur.
-
Could I suggest the creation of a discussion blog, right here on WordPres.com, just for the translation to Polish? The point being to try and achieve some kind of consensus among the majority.
-
I understand your predicament, vanillalounge. It is difficult to arbiter among the warring parties if you don’t know their language. (I assume you don’t speak Polish?). This is where those whizz kids draw the strength from. They cannot be judged by the world at large and so they thrive on the monopoly they hold over localisations (even though they don’t really know what it implies). No one dares to challenge them, but we have done so with our sweeping changes. Perhaps we should only have tackled the most glaring examples which would stand a better chance of being “digested”?
.
Your idea is not bad in principle, however I can predict the outcome would be in favour of “sticking with the old”, as in this community you’ll find few professional translators, not to mention the responses are most likely to come from those who have a stake in it. -
@”stylistyczne”-tlumaczenia: It’s nonsense. I’ll call you Don Kichot. You’re fighting with evolution of language. Language is changing, new words are coming from other languages. You won’t change the world. This process is natural. Look at other languages. English contains tons of words coming from French or Latin – “excuse” for example. By the way. in your “translations” you use words such as “meta”, “intruz”. These are _not_ native Polish words. Look at the etymology.
I assume you aren’t a programmer, so you don’t even know, that buttons for instance should have imperative form (do, save, go), not a participle. You can’t even limit your language to few words, so that menu breaks to two rows. Furthermore, “random post” is easier to understand than “find a post for me, that maybe would be interesting”, and “mark as spam” versus “i think that this message came from intruder and I want to get rid of it”
And don’t call us kids. Are we really unrepresentative? Look on other Polish-languaged sites, like blox.pl, or even onet blog, and tell me, who the heck uses “wpis” insted of “zaloguj”? I found _no_ websites with that idiotic translations.
So… you call yourself a professional?
The REAL choise is: Modern versus nonsense.
@vanillalounge: As for the majority, I see that everyone (except “stylistyczne”-tlumaczenia) wants modern-polish translations, not the bloated, nonsense ones.
-
@accisidium
I’m glad you wrote all I had on my mind. You deserve a beer.I’ve found “stylistyczne”-tlumaczenia’s blog (sorry, DIARY), read his note about how Polish language is endangered and I see him calling everyone who don’t agree with his opinion “whizz kids”. Now I know who are we dealing with and I’m not going to argue with some completely close-minded purist who can’t understand that our language is evolving and that there are some certain social groups who use their own slang that shouldn’t be changed into vocabulary from 19th century. You say you’re into translations from 18 years (and it seems you try to justify all your opinions just by this fact) and I just hope you translate some 100 years old poems or something like that, just keep away from Internet stuff, because you know absolutely nothing about how its vocabulary works. I don’t expect you to change your thoughts after 18 years of translating like that, I just believe that reason will win and we will get back our normal Polish version. Or if we really want to make everyone (no matter how weird they are) happy, please, make two Polish versions: one for normal people and second with “stylistyczne”-tlumaczenia’s translations. I bet he will be the only one to use the latter. Regards from a “whizz kid”.
-
I think it is time to overwrite .com’s Polish translations with the ones from .org (at least the ones that match), which I will do tomorrow, to leave time for this issue to cool down.
Please remember to keep this discussion on the technical level, and not let it slide into personal attacks (I’m not saying there were any yet, but we’re heading there a little too fast).
Thank you all.
-
-
Your conclusion is wrong, vanillalounge. You gave credence to the largely false accusations and the incorrect back translations by the unrepresentative sample of WordPress users. The established translations are clumsy and heavily corrupted, which makes your stomach churn. It’s a far cry from “modern”. Calling it “modern” is a travesty of the truth. You’d get pretty much the same results using Google or other translation software. There’s a lot of moaning about the poor standards of Polish IT translations amongst the computer users, however it is not audible to you, because nobody bothers to conduct any surveys about it and an average user wouldn’t bother or know how to go about complaining.
There’s only one allegation we can accept and that is that few of our translations are bloated and this is because by and large Polish is not as succinct as English and you need more words to express a concept, however, if too long strings pose a problem, we have alternatives. As far as “nonsense” goes that’s precisely what applies to the amateur translations, e.g.: our Polish equivalent of “log in” stands for ‘posts’ in the amateur script. Now, it may be well entrenched and emulated by large numbers of incompetent translators, but it still doesn’t make sense! I find there’s a lot of arrogance among those who want to impose on others their poor standards, just because their have a better understanding of I.T. Ok, so maybe WordPress caters to the youngsters who don’t care about the language, but then at least I want to clear it up, so we all know where we stand.
A disappointed adult WordPress user -
I do care about our language, I study Polish philology. On the last congress about Polish language dr Grzenia – who studies relationships between Polish and the Internet – even stated that our language owes (!!!) the Internet a lot of new words like “zalogować się” (to log in), “komentarz” (comment)”, “forum”, etc.
You wrote on you blog: “podłanczali i rozłanczali”. And you still claim to be an alpha and omega about Polish. I’ve got no more questions.I see the Polish version is coming back to normal (a sigh of relief), so I don’t see any reason to feed the troll. Keep up the good work, WordPress!
- The topic ‘Application to become a Polish validator’ is closed to new replies.
WordPress.com Forums 