can I use any image from internet?
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Britney Spears tried to sue someone for the very rumour she had a sex tape; the judge ruled that having a sex tape with her husband was exactly the kind of thing that someone with her public reputation WOULD have, so the rumour, whether true or not, was not defamatory. That’s not exactly the same point, but it’s related, see?
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Hi Raincoaster!
How can they be so nasty to you?! OMG!!!
Actually, celebrities have rights indeed, but in blogging… which happens to be personal and gossip in nature, pictures are in place of words as expression. Which is why most who knows how to defend must know the principle of copyright and other laws. Well, because Justice is not just the validity of one law. You cannot claim Osama is legal because Taliban Afganistan legalised Osama’s bombing in 911 nor can USA claim Osama is depriving under UN charter that pork is not allowed even to foreigners…
That’s the nature of laws neglected by small and incompetent lawyers around the world.
Feartheseed has helped in bringing up an issue which can explain something about fair use: Photoshop.
In copyright, it is awarded to the producer or the one who have made the effort producing the image, or design. Assuming that the WordPress Logo is used, and Feartheseed cut the W, add an A, change the exposure, and fade the W… and place an Hello Kitty… The created result or production is not WordPress Logo, of cos.
Who is the creator or copyright owner of this… photoshop-ed ‘thing’?
Who else but Feartheseed. Which is probably why many who have insulted the politicians in my land with photoshop-ed photos are never really warned for copyright infringement.
To understand that clearer, we assume Mr Picasso is designing a robot called Pokemon. By copyright, no one can copy in parts or full that design. But a Michaelangelo painted Picasso, Richard Gere, Clinton’s poster, the Pokemon design and a cola can into his work… Who has the copyright to Michaelangelo’s masterpiece, say, ‘The Priceless Last Art Of Michael’?
Picasso? Gere? Coka Cola? Or Mr Clinton?
Of cos, it’s Mr Michael. :)
What if Michael lived another 500 years, and he can produce the same painting with a camera? So he shoot instead or painting.
Who owns the copyright?
Easy to guess.
Suppose he lived another 50years, and he can put a cola can, a pokemon design, Picasso and Gere in with Photoshop?
Who owns the copyright of ‘The Priceless Last Art Of Michael’?
Who else by Michaelangelo? His tool has upgrade from his painting set to a camera and to a software.
But here, if a spy uses a painting set, a camera and photoshop to produce Pokemon’s robot design… is the spy infringing copyright? Yes, he is. Why is that so?
Anyone has any question?
Simple, right?
So dear Raincoaster, it is always with the use of the copyright, be it songs or arts. Look at my CGPs. I don’t think if Taiwanese ah ma produces a video with China national anthem in it, that’d give China a rights to invade Taiwan to claim the cost… lol~
Actually, copyright is an international laws, which is hence complicated because different lands’ mastery of the concept is different. There was a video produced with a pop song and some chap dancing, the song coy sued, but I heard they lost eventually. But the point is, if nobody understands what is right or wrong, but rely on the will and fancy of how lawyers and your rich plantiff want you to see such laws, you’d be in big trouble.
Many lawyers and people, like the infamous case with Odex Singapore, don’t understand or refuse to consider UN state sovereignty. Do you know that if you download songs in USA from China… you shouldn’t be liable at all. In China, if the coy you are downloading from is not illegal or arrested in China to do so, you are downloading or performing a legal action. Because the exchange is between you and that China entity. And under UN charter, USA cannot claim the action that China allows to be illegal by its own state laws.
In China it is perfectly ok. The only way USA can impose its own laws… is to send its army and fight the case with China. Hahahaha… Interesting?
Scope.
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Copyright has international laws and treaties, but WP.com blogs are subject to AMERICAN laws. Which may include some of those treaties and may exclude others, and may add other legal restrictions.
We’re not talking about invading your house, Scope, although you could ask Saddam Hussein about that. We’re talking about invading/removing your blog and/or suing you in court or issuing a warrant for your arrest in the US. Those are the worst-case scenarios that a WP.com blogger violating copyright faces here. Depending on which country you live in, you may or may not have other problems, like the Egyptian police breaking down your door and hauling you off to jail.
Scope, China is now a signatory of the same copyright treaties as the US, so downloading music in China is illegal, too. Surprise!
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Hi, Raincoaster!
As I have explained last time, in all legal cases, there is a need to state down the ‘positons’ of the party involved.
Paparrazis and us commoners or gossipers are different, and do not hold the same mens rea. For eg, if you report Bodyshop for selling a fake product in unethical manner, the case is different when you do that as:
1. A reporter;
2. A judge;
3. The consumer;
4. The (perhaps disgruntled) staff of Bodyshop…Plus a difference here with this: Local or foreigner.
One cannot just use a preceedence which appears <i>related</i> to conclude. Because this is all case-by-case. That is, unless something is wrong with the courts.
Even if it is civil offences… You cannot claim that A offence is valid for B civil offence but invalid for B criminal offence. Well, I do not intent to go that deep. But in civil offences, very often you have tort alongside with it, and justice-wise, seldom can you consider A action is illegal in Civil and Legal in Criminal… Nosensical… Hahahaha~ This is a joke on justice. If you smoke in an anti smoke area, you are liable for civil offence, and you are a criminal as well. There is no such thing as you have civil offence but you are doing the promoted thing by the state. Nosense, right?
Anyway, you cannot sue someone for spreading rumors if one:
1. Spread it claiming it is rumors;
2. If you don’t prove that it is not rumors;
Which the above are the same in nature.And of cos, this is understandably from the above hence that:
1. Your position as a defendent has totally no credence to the truth nor conflict of interest.This is easily understood when a clown tells you “Hey! Spears is flying above me!”! It’s a job of the clown, he earns money for such ‘rumors’, but he is understandably not guilty.
For pictures that is supposedly designed to be ‘withheld’, this is not just the issue of USA but of many states becos it is common sense. However, while State laws can try to control WordPress, but the State laws cannot make judgement of (eg) people blogging such pictures that you mentioned.
This is the part of grey area. USA cannot say that picture of Spears that is perceived a legal or culturally acceptable in China or by China citizen OR created outside USA to be illegal. This is again against the spirit of UN respect not only each state’s sovereignty but also their civilisation. WordPress which is under USA laws cannot represent the States in (say) discouraging the arts of Zulu or Chinese prefered choice of Britney’s pic (hence other’s culture). Assuming Scope uploaded Gung Fu pictures in Syria, and say… Bush is hell of against Gung Fu in USA, and he is against Syria.
We assume WordPress can be acessed in Syria…
The only right thing USA can do against those picture is to send an armed force and make Syrians decourage this cultural preference… or make Syria another state of USA. That’s by right.
In reality, state laws all over the globe has no legal impact on what contents in residing in cyberspace. You can see the contents as you can see Martians on Mars, but neither Cyberspace nor Martians are the legal charge of any states. But of course, by left, states can be barbaric… So the laws on ISPs n servers may be valid, but by UN charter, any pressures on contents are not really valid. Because (eg) the Chinese like Gung Fu, Bush may not… So?
War lah~!
You cannot say that because the server hosts the content, hence USA which hosts the server is legal to do that… but the contents also belong to who? Produced from Syria, culturally from China… <u>and what rights have USA to deny other culture and sovereign preferences</u>? What rights to dicriminate Chinese Gung Fu?
See the basis? :)
Scope.
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I’ve gone back and forth on this myself and have largely limited the pictures I use to thumbnails (I saw Rain’s sources before and consider the sources and her to be very credible).
I do chat every once in a while with one of the horse racing photographers I use fruquently, and she’s seen the site and the videos I made using her stuff. She seemed cool with it, although I should’ve asked first (I honestly didn’t know a thing about what I was doing at the time).
I do have a quick related question – what’s the best way for linking back/giving credit? Let’s say I use an A.P. photo of the Kentucky Derby winner hitting the wire this Saturday. Do I just add text underneath the picture saying where the photo was from? It seems like a lot of the information you enter when you upload the photo (i.e., file name, etc.) aren’t displayed anywhere. Should the credits go in those text boxes when I’m first uploading the image, or should they be free-hand typed below? Just looking for opinions on this to see if there is a preferred method using the software available to us?
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I’m a professional photographer based in Asia where copyright laws and its implementation and protection are lax but that doesn’t mean it’s OK! Here’s an example of a recent breach that was settled amicably between professionals: Magazine vs Celebrity vs Photographer …
http://shimworld.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/copyright-lost-in-translation/
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Hi, Raincoaster!
You can’t say China signs that, hence it is illegal. It’s not that simple. :)
USA has condemned China for infringing Human Rights… now, even if China signs a treaty or what, what do you think of the rights of Chinese in China?As I said, you can’t have an action which is legal here and not legal there, but what is legal and illegal in China? You must know the ‘special’ situation in China before we can even talk about legal in (eg) such downloads. I can tell, it is very easy to download Japanese games n translated Western games from China, and the Chinese doing that could be well very much ‘legally’ protected. Now unless USA can make China closed down the illegal coys… your ‘trade’ relationship with China is still… legal.
Treaty is useless, or to be fair– not the reliable pillar. Singapore tried all the black n whites, it learns one good lesson… In China, it’s not the same. It’s illegal to own arms in China. So? You still have guys walking around with AK47 walking past the cops, openly.
This is like Iraq… You can have a lot of Treaty with Saddame… So?
By right, USA has no authority over Scope. Nor China. China cannot say because Scope’s content is in USA blog host and China doesn’t like it (saying it is illegal) and want to arrest Scope for it.
This is a very interesting talk with you, Raincoaster.
All of us are global people, and our pressence in blogs or just online is in Cyberspace. I have always find it very hilarious that States are imposing laws on internet because who really owns cyberspace? What is the right thing to do for communicating globally may be at the irk of… well, Putin. Sometimes, I must say, I feel terribly hopeless for such states. I am in fact, aiming to migrate to one peaceful place by hook or crook after my parents are no longer with me.
Yes. WordPress is under American laws, which is an issue because… pardon me for being honest here, that USA had made invasions recently with British leaving France, China and others like Iran and N Korea shocked… Or you can say, for some reasons, USA has little regards to UN. I have empathy towards WordPress’ situation.
Gosh, we have moved too far away from the innocent copyrights issue. Sorry sorry!
I hereby wish Mark and team the best. The current era is one when IT tech is evolving, and the governments are busily trying to catch (which is a waste of time in my opinion, cos it won’t be fair anyway) up. Look at Myanmar. Is my Singapore going to become Myanmar? Is USA going to become China?
Shouldn’t be. But who don’t want to control internet?
But then, with the control, why internet? Why blogging?
Seriously, I am not afraid of the USA courts or the courts around the world. I am more concern that bloggers globally are busy with individualism covering their own asses, courting their own money… and forget that our rights to expression is ours to defend in united fashion, and globally.
WordPress has now a massive number of bloggers all over the world, with many many political sites hosted with it as well. Mark and his team has a big responsibility over us. If it cannot overcome the dirty hands in USA on WordPress, it cannot be global. So that is its challenge. WordPress is a leader now, we are like some followers. If WordPress cannot be strong, it’d decline over time. For us, we can just jump blog host. For Scope, I might just move back to Sohu. But what will happen to WordPress?
Gosh… I have become too political for comfort.
I shall retire from this topic for now.
Nice day, folks! ;) Nice day to you, Raincoaster.
Scope.
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@kstafford – Technically, the AP would say no, that’s not good enough. From their website, from the area in which photo rights are sold for personal use:
Can I use a photo on my Web site?
Not without permission from the paper. This is considered commercial use. Contact the publication or organization directly for commercial use of a photographFull info here: http://www.ap.org/pages/product/photoservices.html
“China is now a signatory of the same copyright treaties as the US….”
And a fat lot of good that’s doing.counterfeit watches = China
counterfeit handbags = China
counterfeit movies = China
counterfeit music = China -
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Dear Ellaella,
I am currently outside China as well. But in this era, we can always fix a date… in any part of the world we might travel to in the same time. ;)
Maybe when I went to Peru, I’d ask again. But I prefer coffee in Peru.
You must have been to China. I love those bags. Cool! Go there shopping again? Count me in! You’d get very cheap rates with me around. China is my ‘shopping centre’ nowadays. I do my major shopping by flying there at frequency.
Johore is too expensive… and not as attractive as Beijing, Shanghai and many Chinese cities. Nice knowing you, Ellaella.
Scope.
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Nice knowing you too, scope. No, I hate those countefeits and everything they represent. Sorry.
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Hi, Ellaella!
Interestingly, some of the most ardent shoppers of the countefeits in China are Europeans and Americans. They just love the quality vs the cost.
I am pretty open minded to countefeits, btw.
Actually, Thailand seems to be replacing China to be the better Bag countefeits.
But I do like food as well. The food in your blog is making me drooling oredi. Too bad, they can’t be imported. Lol~ Keep up the good food!
Scope.
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Thanks for visiting and drooling!
Yes, ebay is full of counterfeits, as is Chinatown in NY
I am pretty open minded to countefeits, btw.
And how open-minded are you to someone taking what’s on your blog — text, original photos or both — and posting it on their own blog? That’s a theft of intellectual property rights just as counterfeiting is.
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Hi, Ellaella!
I am a Chinese, but a Singaporean by birth. But in Chinese culture or moral, I maybe have a little difference in such things than friends from America.
Allow me to offer you this incident: During the time when Scope is based in Sohu, someone came informing me that a chap has used my photo, crop it into a focus size to show my face and it becomes its ID.
To you, it may be not only countefeit, but also impersonating, and such. But to me, I visited the blog… and he was just using my face as his ID pic; it’s similar to someone using Andy Lau or Crystal Liu or Hello Kitty’s face as ID. It’s all over the blogosphere to us stars’, models and other celebrities’ face. While this usually seen as offensive, I assessed his use, it’s not really offensive.
If there is a law for the Chinese that says its offensive, but there is a need for the Chinese culture to decide whether that is socially acceptable. Albeit the person later apologised and used another photo, actually he doesn’t need to. It is being allowed for the nature of myself and his use of my photo.
There is another incident where some chaps cut and paste or link my CGPs to a Hardwarezone forum and they nosenscially attacked them and myself. If you check the thick copyright law book, you’d know that they have incurred an offence. It’s not fair use anymore, and the comments are obviously unfair; it is not even fair comments. Hence I sent warning, but I never did intend really to sue them.
In this entertainment industry, if you check Stars’ blog, including Furong Jie Jie’s and Xiaxue’s… There are tons of nosense n migots. Scope is basically prepared for such publicity as the counterparts in the circles.
Here you can see the difference in issues. Basically, it’s not just ‘open minded’ on theft of my own photos or CGPs. Many fans of Scope even cut and paste my articles back then to ‘promote’ their own blogs. What should I do? Condemn them? They are not illegal.
So that’s why I said here… WordPress is hosting cultures and civilisations of the world; it is by the nature of this, that there is no crime or offense to USA laws because ‘by right’, USA doesn’t have the rights to condemn the culture and the practises or sovereignty of other member states; hence its laws cannot offend this status. That is by right.
I am not going too deep in this because this is a context not easy to understand by commoners. Many online simple goes by what he or she likes and hates… But no bloggers can make everyone all over the world happy; not to say WordPress has been doing not bad a job but some people will be naturally unhappy with WordPress. While I can accept ‘related links’ if that helps WordPress, obviously others cannot.
So the point is very simple for me, Ellaella.
I cannot expect everyone to be nice and happy since they are not me, but I must try to be nice myself. That’s the principle towards publicity. As for whether people want to lose a friend in nice Scope or not, that’s basically not my decision to make.
You have asked a good question. Maybe you’d find my reply useful.
Nice to rush off! See you!
Scope.
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Hi, observe the amendment:
‘…To you, it may be not only countefeit, but also impersonating, and such. But to me, I visited the blog… and he was just using my face as his ID pic; it’s similar to someone using Andy Lau or Crystal Liu or Hello Kitty’s face as ID. It’s all over the blogosphere to use stars’, models and other celebrities’ face. While this usually seen as offensive, I assessed his use, it’s not really offensive…’
Thank you.
Scope.
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