Feedback Thread for the Block Editor
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@valsrealife I had forgotten about that thread. I was being very polite and really trying to like the block editor!
I have been reading posts on a website called WordPress Tavern that is mainly for people who develop themes for WordPress or sites using WordPress. I gather from stuff on that site that the vision for WordPress is that ordinary users will be able to create their own themes, posts, and whole sites, all in blocks. On the one hand, they are worried that if this really happened, it would put them out of business, both theme developers and website builders. On the other hand, they think that most of their customers couldn’t be bothered with learning these tools anyway, so they will still have business.
Most of these folks use third-party tools for website design, so part of what WordPress is doing is trying to replace those tools with native block-based WordPress tools. Will that work? Who knows? I think the people at the top in WordPress think that they are giving powerful communication tools to the little guys, but actually most of the little guys want simple tools and the big guys will hire people to create what they need, so they don’t need tools. That’s why I think this vision is not going to succeed.
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Thank you @valsrealife for that link!
So if WP keeps it promise we have another two years of blissful blogging in the Classic Editor.
Good. In the meantime we make plans for 2022…..
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@guitarsophist One thing to bear in mind is that WordPress Tavern and most of the other sites that give advice and tutorials about WordPress are meant for people who use the WordPress software and self-host, they are not meant for this site which is WordPress.com.
Their applications are different.
Apart from business and VIP users here who are able to pay to install plugins, the rest of us can’t: we are reliant on the people who own and run the site to install them for us and often the ones we want they won’t provide, or they install ones we don’t want! There are only so many things we can do here, it’s the difference between a person who owns their home and a person who rents one.
So, apropos:
“I gather from stuff on that site that the vision for WordPress is that ordinary users will be able to create their own themes, posts, and whole sites, all in blocks.”
If that is so, then it is for the self-hosting community on WordPress.org (who use the Codex – see here: https://codex.wordpress.org/) not us here on WordPress.com.Have a look at this: https://wordpress.com/support/com-vs-org/
A lot of what goes on here on wp.com starts on wp.org. And then what happens is that we, here, become their guinea pigs, their unpaid testers. That’s why things change here so frequently. Nothing on this site is every likely to settle. It’s something one has to get used to, or leave. Trouble is – go where?
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@valsrealife Yes, I know. WordPress Tavern is a glimpse at the whole ecosystem, which is mainly about WordPress.org and self hosting. And of course, there is Classicpress, which forked before the block editor was implemented in WP core, again implemented in self hosting. Where to go is the real question. Ten months ago, there really wasn’t an alternative that wasn’t much more expensive. I was ready to go with Ghost (another WP rogue group), but then I realized that my teachers couldn’t download materials that I had uploaded. I am about to do another investigation.
I am afraid we are close to getting this thread closed down.
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Let us summarise. The following includes not just my comments but also those of others that have appeared above, I am not stealing I am supporting.
1. The proverb LEAVE WELL ALONE. Throughout computers there are strong forces that believe in “change for the sake of change”, keep adding so-called “improvements” that remove useful things previously available, and make things more complicated.
Most of us like to learn something and then settle down to using it, without having to stop and learn something new every five minutes in order to continue. Things get even worse as the newer things are always more and more complicated.
I said most of us, as there are exceptions, among the brighter sections of the young, who want to constantly move forward. For them the newer things are ideal, but I repeat they are a small minority. The newer complicated things are good for them, but the old established ones that work well should be retained for the rest of us. As we grow older we more and more do not want to be confused or to have to change every five minutes.
As an example, look what a mess Microsoft have made and are still making with Win10, while they stopped supporting XP. By all means, have a daily-changing Win10 but also keep XP available with support for the vast number who are satisfied with it.
For a word processor, there are loads of simple things that can be done with Word Perfect 5.1 for DOS (which I sill use and convert to PDF) that cannot be done on the latest Word, the only real advantage of the latter being wysywig.
Let us get used to something good and keep it.
2. Large improvements are nowadays always accompanied by “worsenings” (the best word I could find for the opposite to improvements) — this is NOT inherently necessary.
3. The staff on this site are not interested in doing away with the block, regardless of out comments, only in trying to find possible adjustments, small things that can be improved so as to reduce slightly — I repeat slightly — the complaints.
4. As someone commented, those on top think they no better that the users what the users want. New things are always tested by experts. But they are the ones who find no difficulty in complexity. Changes in any popular programme (as against specialised ones) should be tested by simple non-expert people, almost semi-idiots (I said almost), to see how they react. [I once read this in a book, he said real idiots.] This is not done.
As someone commented, they think they no better that the users what the users want.
5. When something new appears in the WP Reader blog, have you noticed how all the comments say how marvellous it is and how they love it? Before anyone has a chance to try it properly and say it stinks the item is (after only a few days) closed to comments. I make no comment on this, but leave it to the reader.
5. My point in writing all that is obvious to the readers, is that perhaps, perhaps, just one member of the staff who reads it will begin to see the mentality of simple people who use Word Press who are not experts as they themselves have to be, and start to put on a little pressure higher up. We have a long struggle and a difficult battle to fight. -
@halilac, quote:
I said most of us, as there are exceptions, among the brighter sections of the young, who want to constantly move forward. For them the newer things are ideal, but I repeat they are a small minority.
It has become clear to me that many very young and (very) bright people among my friends and acquaintances, also find constant changes in the features they just got used to exceedingly annoying and don’t wish to waste their precious time “learning” to “move forward”, as they are bright enough to understand that not every change is an improvement. But perhaps they have less time on their hands, what with careers, family life and such to post about their annoyance in forums.
These changes websites constantly impose upon us, are not the wish of the users, but of the site management who are pressured to keep up with technological “advancements” or be “left behind”
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Yes, Mabel. You noticed that I said “among”.
There are programmers employed who have to justify their income by constantly producing something new. I say yes, for the experts and those who want it, but not to replace and take away what is good and works well.
I have said roughly what you have said in different words, as others have, but to get a point home it is often helpful to have it repeated in different words. One style of expression appears to some, another to others, both are needed. We have a long difficult battle to fight. -
This was all started by the car makers (was it Henry Ford or a successor?) with the abominable curse called “planned obsolescence”.
Even if you learn the block editor and use it, you will get constant changes and eventually it will be replaced by something else! -
I agree with @halilic but there are also people here who have tried out the block editor pretty thoroughly and still don’t like it.
To me it’s like wanting a screwdriver and they give you a hammer with a screwdriver attachment. You complain and they keep saying, “but it’s a really good hammer!” But actually it’s not very good at either task.
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I have a friend, age 25 and a web designer, and he told me he HATES it when he logs in to find his favorite site rearranged once again, lol
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Even though I’m equally guilty of diverting somewhat, I think it’s time to get this thread back on track. The original post from Supernovia (Staff) asked specific questions of us:
So let us know:
– What’s your typical process?
– What is getting in the way?
– If you could adjust one feature, what would it be?This thread is turning (has turned) into a philosophical discussion and really that’s not what the support forum is about. Those sorts of discussions can be posted to and continued in our own blogs. If they’re continued here, they bump this thread up to the top and make other people’s issues get pushed lower down – further back in the queue.
Those of us who have already posted about it, have had our say (and probably been noted by Staff who DO look at these threads.)
I, for one, am trying to use the block editor – even though I hate it with a vengeance – and am finding ways to do so, for instance, I didn’t know til yesterday that more than one photo can be put in a post (you can: you have to use the Gallery block instead of the Image block) nor did I know that you can wrap text around an image, by inserting an image, clicking on the side and lower virtual ‘handles’ and resizing it visually, then clicking the up or down arrow (in the top menu) to put it into a text paragraph already typed.
What I’m saying is there are ways to do all these things, and when we find a glitch, when there’s a bug or something is not working, that’s when we should come here to support and let them know so that they can help not just us, but other people.
In the meantime, if you want more people to express their opinions on this – what’s not working for them, etc – tell your blog or site’s readers to come to this thread and have their say.
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As far as I can see, judging from their responses, people ARE actually relating to Supernovia’s questions:
– namely that their typical “process” (which is quite a vague question) is “writing”, so creating text, without the need for further complicated layout tricks –
– that the entire block editor is “getting in the way” –
– and thus, they cannot really point at *one” specific feature which would “get” in the way –
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I spent a few hours with the Block editor when it was first launched and struggled to find the few simple limited options I needed to post on my simple limited site. So I’ve just tried again:
Right I’m really trying here. The Block editor scares me as I’m just typing with a blank screen and have no idea how to make the text bold as there are no icons to click on. How do people with screen readers use this? Wait, I’ve just left clicked the mouse and a few weird symbols have appeared. Wait, they’ve gone again. I press enter and I’m now in a different block when I’m still writing the same post. The 7 odd symbols in a row have moved down and now hover over my earlier text obscuring what I’ve written and making me lose my thread. Where is add an image? Nowhere on this 7 symbol menu. Oh you have to click the blue plus top left no where near where you’re writing. I’m presented with 100s of blocks. How do you get rid of them? They won’t go away. Oh you have to click the blue plus again (which is no longer blue but black!?! The black plus is now moving round the screen. It’s above these words. No, it’s now on the right. Try again to add an image. Ah I see. If you click the delete button you can get all paragraphs that were separate blocks back into the one block. What a palaver. I could have written pages in the classic editor by now.
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Heya, converted my editor to blocks and I’m still able to do work due to me writing primarily in HTML, and the code editor still being available, but since the change I noticed that when I autotweet and write stuff in the field, it NEVER tweets out what I type: It saves as such when I go back to the editor and it shows that what I typed is there, but the actual tweet is just the name of my review.
I’ve only gotten it to work properly once upon making it a super short tweet, but otherwise the Twitter tweet is busted. Please fix this as otherwise it’s very handy, and I kinda do need to tweet properly in order to ping developers/people involved with games I review and cover.
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Mabel
I have a friend, age 25 and a web designer, and he told me he HATES it when he logs in to find his favorite site rearranged once again, lol
Do you mean that when the block editor is there it rearranges your site automatically in your absence even if you do not use it? Horror of horrors!
I hope I have misunderstood you. -
Magic robot
What you wrote endorses what I said that anything new should be thoroughly tested not just by experts but also by extremely simple people who cannot cope with anything complicated (unless it is something specially meant for experts). -
Do you mean that when the block editor is there it rearranges your site automatically in your absence even if you do not use it? Horror of horrors!
No, the Editor will not do any changes on your site on its own.
@thedreaminghawk please open a new thread for that and share a link to the post in question. -
@halilac, quote:
Do you mean that when the block editor is there it rearranges your site automatically in your absence even if you do not use it? Horror of horrors!
I hope I have misunderstood you.You have. I was referring to this bit in your reply ##3506174, quote:
I said most of us, as there are exceptions, among the brighter sections of the young, who want to constantly move forward. For them the newer things are ideal, but I repeat they are a small minority. The newer complicated things are good for them, but the old established ones that work well should be retained for the rest of us. As we grow older we more and more do not want to be confused or to have to change every five minutes.
So I was saying that this friend of mine, age 25, hates it when they change his favorite sites all the time.
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“So now we know. If we still have and still want to use the Classic Editor, we’ve got until 2022. After that, it’s the block editor (or, if it’s still available, the Classic Block inside the Block Editor), or a hunt for somewhere else to blog.”
That is why I asked for a clear position from the WP in favor of the classic editor or to improve the features of the classic block and confirm its stability on the platform.
“Personally, I think that the whole reason behind the block editor is to encourage more business and commercial users to use WordPress.com, because they can afford the hefty upgrade fees and the rest of us can’t, and unfortunately that leaves personal bloggers way behind.”
I think the same way, but I also think that there are too many designers being heard and too few normal bloggers.
“I wonder if Blogger/Blogspot (owned by Google) will go the same way?…they’re also changing their Editor (at the end of June 2020) but, unlike here, even the updated one is still a text editor.”
I also have a website on the Blogger platform and I am using the new editor without difficulty.
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